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Again the gist seems to be that the parents condoned this. I did many things my parents didn't know about nor condone.

obviously there are a lot of unknowns in the crash that happened on the old pecos trail. was owens entirely responsible? i don't know. will he be blamed for being entirely responsible? i'll say yes. what many of you people probably don't remember, was just 2 years ago, there were 5 other teenage girls (cheerleaders) who had just graduated and where driving at night in one care in a caravan (just as these santa fe girls were in), on their way to a sleepover at a cabin. the driver of these girls successfully passed a van on a 2 lane highway (just as the old pecos trail is), and then pulled out again right in front of a semi truck. well, they had a head on collision, and all five girls were killed. the car full of girls right behind them saw it all and were screaming for them not to pass the semi. what happened? well.. it was later determined, that the driver had just received a text message on her phone, and replied. 38 seconds later, 911 got a call about a crash. i am NOT insinutating anything, but there are likely to be MANY things that we will never know. does owens remember? probably not.. maybe he was even trying to avoid the girls in his lane and then overcorrected himself and then ended up in their lane. who knows. i won't take sides, but it is wrong for people to be the judge and jury when there will likely be no proof of what actually led up to the crash. the fierro affair was very much different. they had video cameras that showed him driving on his rims with his lights off. they had 20 witnesses in front of the closed bar that witnessed the events.. but in this case? they have a lone survivor in the girls car, and then owens. it is not uncommon for survivors of these types of collisions to not remember any details. they never got testimony out of that lone survivor in the las vegas family's accident with pabst. it's no surprise. in case you want to read about the 5 girls from 2007, read these TWO links. the first was when it happened, and the second was released after it was determined *someone* was texting on the drivers phone. was the driver? i don't know. nobody will EVER know. -------------- ---------------------------------- ------------------- http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/28/national/main2992365.shtml ------------------------------ -------------------------------- --------------------- http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3379012&page=1&page=1

Fierro, Owens, Papst, House, Lovato - names that remind me of horrible tragedies that impact the vitims and their surrounding communities. Fierro is not being sentenced so we can make an example of him, he is being sentenced because he killed a human being while driving drunk. House was sentenced, served his time, did it change the outcome, no, a mother and her three daughters are still dead. Owens at least admits he caused the accident that killed four teenagers and critically injured another, does he get less time, no. Papst is dead, the Gonzales family wiped out, their surviving daughter will suffer forever, no matter what. Lovato, why are his proceedings so quiet, where are the reporters, does what happen to him weigh on his verdit or vice versa (Fierro)? Who is funding Fierro's defense, question after question..unanswered. The holidays are upon us, people will get drunk to celebrate, I always hesitate to read the next days paper. Those of you who put each other down have lost your vision and with that any meaningful discussion.

steve you are right. if a teen is smoking a cigarette and gets struck by a car, they they weren't at fault. however, if parents let a teen illegally drive after midnight, and they get into a fatal accident, then they might have shown negligence in their judgement to allow the driving, and one, two, three, or maybe all four of the teens might still be alive. of course, this is all based on the type of license this 16 year old had. me? i wouldn't have allowed my 15 or 16 year old daughter to be out party hopping after midnight. i just wouldn't have. but then, that is me.

If a teenager on the sidewalk is smoking a cigarette and gets run over by a car, is the driver exonerated because the teenager is engaging in an illegal activity? Of course not. There is no indication that the misconduct of the teenage driver in this incident in any way contributed to causing the crash. The "accident" was caused by an inebriated person getting into a car and driving and no one else. Is it possible that the driver didn't know he had been drinking and shouldn't be driving? I don't think so. If he woke up sober and got into his car to go drinking, it was a premeditated crime.

Sad Yellow, in other words you don't use your real name because of FEAR....or is it that you are in some way ashamed of your name? Name are PUBLIC DOMAIN……but then you need to understand so is your Postal Address, etc…..you simply don't have the courage to STAND UP for what you post.... Calling Ownes a victim is ludicrous. He made a CHOICE, and until we get people to stop trying to make victims of these idiots we will see people being killed by these choices. But then according to people like you who attempt to make victims of CRIMINALS no one should be held responsible for their actions.

Ah...where to start, where to start? First, to all who are opposing the use of an alias: It's a good idea! No one should use their real name on the internet, especially on a Santa Fe discussion board! We all know that this town is too small and using a real name here could potentially bite someone in the butt. Second, discussing the issue of the teens only having a provisional license is NOT the same as saying they got what they deserved. No one should die at the hands of another in any circumstance. The issue however does need to be addressed so that we can keep young drivers off of the streets late at night in the future. Thrid, Scott Owens did make an awful decision that resulted in an awful conclusion. He is not a monster, he is not a cold blooded killer, he is a man who made a mistake. Yes, this was a dire mistake. I feel that when Owens is compared with Carlos Fierro he his being judged more harshly than the guy who was supposed to be upholding laws, not breaking them. The Fierro case makes me ill because, as is typical in Santa Fe, he knows the right people and will get a lesser sentence for it. Fierro is a monster...Owens, to me, is just as tragic of a figure as are his victims. Also, using an alias is not a sign of cowardice. I just don't give out personal info to strangers and I would suggest that the rest of you don't either.

Drive By.....you are also requested to USE YOUR REAL NAME....if you dont have courage enough or are not adult enough to do so....why should anyone take your post serious....until you have enough maturity to truly stand behind your post with your true name your post simply reflect a lack of maturity, commitment or relevance to any discussion. . When you come on a discussion of DWI and attempt to blame the victims at least have the courage, and maturity to stand behind your post.

If you are choosing to play ... what is your name? That is one of the rules.

actually.. i will correct a statement i just made. this is NOT a public board, but rather a publicly *accessible* board controlled and moderated by the santa fe new mexican editors. they post the rules, and we must abide. either you play by their rules, or you don't play at all. i choose to play. :)

and truett and cb? this is a public board. there is no need to attack me. if you want to post, then post something relevant, but to merely be posting with the intention of attacking others is petty, and not worthy of any more of my time reading your words, or replying. besides, you would lose in a debate with me. trust me. now, run along and have a nice day! :)

when i posted about the 16 year old driver on the highway after midnight shuttling around other 15 and 16 year olds while party hopping, i was merely asking a question by another poster which had gone unanswered on a previous story about this incident. i think it's valid. here is the content of the OFFICIAL new mexico state taxation and revenue website. it will appear all in one big blob because the santa fe new mexican doesn't allow cr/lf's in their posting. (carriage return / line feeds), basically allowing separated paragraphs. --------------------- THE DRIVER LICENSE Anyone operating a motor vehicle or motorcycle on public roadways in the State of New Mexico must have a driver license.? You are also required to have a New Mexico driver license if you are a resident. Types of Driver Licenses ? Graduated License System If you are under the age of 18, you must participate in the graduated driver license system until you meet the requirements for an unrestricted license.? The three different levels of Graduated driver license (GDL) are: ? Instructional Permit ? also known as a ?learners permit? ? Provisional License ? Unrestricted Drivers License Instructional Permit A permit allows you to operate a motor vehicle when supervised by another driver who is at least 21 years of age and who is licensed to drive that type of vehicle.? In all vehicles except motorcycles, the licensed driver must sit in the right front seat.? On motorcycles, the licensed driver must follow the learner. To obtain an instructional permit you must be at least 15 years of age and pass the knowledge test and vision test.? If you are under the age of 18, you must also have a consent form signed by your parent or guardian. The driver must retain the permit for six months. The requirements and restrictions for an Instructional Permit are as follows: ? The minimum age for an instructional permit is 15 years of age. ? A person 15 years or older must be enrolled in and attending a driver education course approved by the Traffic Safety Bureau and includes DWI education and practice driving. ? The driver must have an approved instructor occupying the seat beside the driver; or, ? The driver is with a licensed driver 21years of age or older who has been licensed for at least three years in this state or any other state. ? The driver must retain the instructional permit for at least six months. Provisional License A provisional license allows you to drive without the supervision of another driver ? except during the hours of midnight and 5:00am.? Unless a licensed driver that is 21 years old or older is in the vehicle, you may not have more than one other passenger under the age of 21 who is not a member of your immediate family in the vehicle. The requirements and restrictions for a Provisional license are as follows: ? The driver must complete not less than 50 hours of practice driving, including not less than 10 hours of nighttime driving. The parent or guardian shall certify that the driver has completed the practice driving part. ? The driver must pass a written and road test in addition to a vision screening. ? The minimum age to receive a provisional license is 15 years and 6 months if the driver has held an instructional permit for 6 months. ? The driver must have not been convicted of a traffic violation in the 90 days prior to applying for a provisional license. ? The driver may not operate a motor vehicle upon public highways between the hours of midnight and 5:00 AM. A provisional licensee may drive at any hour if: ? Accompanied by a licensed driver twenty-one years or older. ? Required by family necessity as evidenced by a signed statement of a parent or guardian. ? Required by medical necessity as evidenced by a signed statement of a parent or guardian. ? Driving to and from work as evidenced by a signed statement from the licensee?s employer. ? Driving to and from school or a religious activity as evidenced by a signed statement of a school, religious official or a parent or guardian. ? Required due to a medical emergency. Unrestricted Driver License The requirements and restrictions for an unrestricted driver license are as follows: ? The driver must have held a provisional license for the 12- month period immediately preceding the date of application for a driver license. ? The driver must not have been convicted of a traffic violation 90 days prior to applying for a driver license. ? The driver must not have any traffic violations pending at the time of the application for a driver license. ? The driver must not have been adjudicated guilty or have an offense pending involving the use of alcohol or drugs during the provisional period. ---------------- --------------- ----------------- anyone wishing to read this on the OFFICIAL NM website can go here; ---- http://www.tax.state.nm.us/pubs/dlm/dlm.htm

I am blown away by the remarks on here! Let me say this everyone lost here. Pfeffer I have seen in action he is fair he looks at everything before he rules. I wish the best possible outcome for all familys in this case before we go after are judges what about the dirty cops in santa fe People here need to get there facts straight before they speak.

Pfeffer IS a good man, and a good judge. I watched him preside when I was a court monitor for the SFe Rape Crisis Center. Owens did a great wrong, and has to live with it all the rest of his days. That, it seems to me, is the worst punishment imaginable. Anything we add by way of punishment is understandable, but superfluous. I'd much rather our energy, time and money were spent on prevention, keeping him and others from doing this again. I'd rather see him get treatment for his alcohol abuse and have his car fitted with an interlock. Yes, I know there are ways around that, and that alcoholism is often intractable. There are risks, but imprisonment is a pretty draconian way to do prevention, especially when it and punishment are the only tools in our tool box.

Don`t be so proud, or seek vengeance. This is a loss for every last one of us. Putting him away ain`t gunna make a thing better. Sure! we`ll make him an example. That still doesn`t change squat. Other than to satiate you blood thirsty vengeful types. There ain`t no winners here.

Sabine Stroehm, true but just maybe we can shame the cowards enough they might....wishfull thinking I guess.....

I hope the plea works out and that Owens get a fair sentence, one that fits the crime. There will never be closure for these families, that's been our experience, I just hope they can move forward the best they can.

Of course DWI is outlawed! In this case the charges are four counts of vehicular homicide and one count of causing great bodily harm. These are felony counts, while DWI is a misdemeanor. And I don't think this drunk will get off easy. He'll be locked away for a long time.

Judge Pfeffer is a good man. I have no doubt that Owens will get a fair trial.

We'll see how it all plays out... Ps: truett how is it ever possible to "enforce using real names"?

New Mexicans love their DWI. Will we ever outlaw it? Probably not, too many alcohol lovers!

District Court Judges are not elected, they are retained. If it means that much to you advocate against his retention. Scott Owens was driving drunk going the wrong way. I'd prefer that kids this age not be out late at night being kids but the driver was not drunk driving the wrong way. Any of us coulda been on the road at the that time of night engaging in any number of legit activities. No one deserves to be killed by a drunk driver gong the wrong way.

When are the monitors of this board going to enforce using real names and pushing cowards like drive by, santa flush etc.... out of the way so adults can discuss the issues?

Steve Rizika - That's pretty much the general content of DB Poster's inane posts. When is Fierro supposed to be sentenced? Things are sure quiet on him lately. Wonder if he's still lounging in the medical unit. Wonder if he's still in SF. ??

He should sue the car manufacturer 'cause there was no warning on the door saying "don't drive when stoned"

Dear Drive by Poster: Not funny, not thought provoking, not interesting.

didn't i read that the parents were partially responsible for allowing a 16 year to be out past midnight driving around 15 and 16 year olds and going to parties? maybe someone call tell me if this is true. what are the laws governing minors driving? and if they were partially responsible, are they going to be charged as well?

Now let’s see what the defense will come out with. I hope the District Attorney's office will chose a better prosecutor then they did for Carlos Ferros! On appeal in Carlos case I have a strong feeling the defense will win and Carlos will be a free bird.

Why it took this long isn't the real problem. What matters now is that the case is assigned to judge Pfeffer, who never met a criminal he couldn't sympathize with. Owens will walk, and Pfeffer will be reelected by the "Whole Foods" crowd once again. Bet on it.

What took so long too charge him? Especially since he waived all his hearings and is plea bargaining. Maria